Lung volume reduction surgery (LVRS) in 480 Thoracic surgery clinics worldwide

My experience the doctor are the patient are Caring and nurses are taken care patients GOod honest kind responsable respect caring trusted helping Concerns

This is the worst experience I've ever had in my seven years living in Taiwan. The nurses and all the staff at the front desk (emergency department) are the worst and very slow!!!! I literally cried in pain because I had an animal stuck in my left ear but they still had a lot to ask about my condition like getting fever, nausea, vomiting, etc.. Even though my boyfriend was with me and said he would help with everything but just please get the animal out., they didn’t care because “that’s the procedure”. Very bad attitude. I just hope this has nothing to do with race or anything.

Adequate facilities for the single ward, with bathroom, refrigerator, desk, sofa, sofa bed, TV, and electric bottle in the room. On the same floor you can find clothe dryer. Overall remained in good condition.

I went to see an OBGYN at NTU because I had been having pelvic pain for about 2 weeks at that point. I'd felt similar discomfort before when I'd had an infection, so that was my best guess. The OBGYN did a very perfunctory pelvic exam and declared it couldn't possibly be an infection or related to the gynecological area because it didn't hurt when he pressed externally on the pelvic area, so I left with no treatment. That night, I had to go to the ER for stabbing pelvic pain and bleeding and was diagnosed with a bad pelvic infection. In summary, would very much recommend Taiwan Adventist Hospital's OBGYNs (called specially to the ER - so thorough, caring, and efficient) over NTU (for gynecology anyway).

I was at the start of a month long vacation and needed an emergency spinal epidural. I met with the neurologist, Dr Chang, who was able to perform the procedure the next day. This was probably the best medical treatment that I have ever had. And the cost was $172 USD. Here in the US, the same thing cost over $2k. I highly recommend this hospital.

Excellent doctors, nurses, and staff. Surely they can find a better way to organize their elevators? They have treated my elders in thoughtful and humane ways. We are grateful.

I did have a motorbike accident with several injuries. They admitted me to the hospital, wehere they carried out the necessary checks, including blood test, including x-ray, including CT scan. To have full picture of my various injuries. Afterwards the surgeons did an excellent job stitching me together, and after operation care was excellent. The nurses are very caring, the stuff is highly professional, the doctor speaks English, and if there is a communication problem, Google translate is always of a great help. They ensured a perfect hospital experience, despite my accident in a hospital, which has to be highly recommended due to its professional staff, including administration, nurses and doctors. Great job done!

Thank you very much to the excellent Dr Tran Quoc Khanh, nurses and staff. I really appreciate the ‘honest’ and efficient care that I received today. I came in for a last-minute general health check report (to support a work permit application to another country). All simple tests including urine and blood tests were comfortably completed in one afternoon. Cost was around 2.5million which is a very reasonable fee given the quality standard of service. Hospital is nice and clean and overall in good condition. International section is on 4th floor of Block C. Very easy to get to from the road entrance.

Customer service very bad. Don't want to even try and contact the insurance even if you have full international coverage. Procedures urgently need a review.

The nurses are bad and my roomate dont relate with my disease(mine is infectious disease)

Clean and good services

The hospital is quite clean and clear.

The hospital has clean space and rooms, modern and fairly new facilities, and quite enthusiastic staff. The dishes in the hospital meals are delicious and delicious, my mother complimented me after eating them (3 meals/day are included in the hospital room fee). But the wifi in the room is weak and not prepared for patients with pillows and blankets, so it is a bit lacking in this regard. Hopefully the hospital will improve so that patients and relatives can be comfortable and worthy of the money spent.

It's not an international hospital, as they are trying to make it look like. They don't provide translation service. And their administration are laggy and corrupted, just trying to make people move round and round without giving an actual response, especially any case regarding English. The quality of room is acceptable in comparison to price, but the services are not that good.

I am a person who is quite sensitive to hospitals because of spiritual factors. But when I come here I feel comfortable (good energy field). Surprisingly, the leaders of this side focus on finding treatment solutions for customers to prevent diseases with advanced technology instead of focusing on business to make a profit or cure. Focusing on helping customers prevent illness is a place I think few places do. So satisfied Not to mention the visibility is also very far, so there are diverse examination areas or treatment functions suitable to the needs of customers. My family also experienced medical examination and treatment at the hospital here. Service is okay. Delicious food. The space is clean and airy. Regarding price, I have a life guarantee so it doesn't cost money. Basically, when you come here, there are enough services for both patients and caregivers. No need to worry about going out. If you come here, go in the direction the rocket is pointing, don't take the road according to Google, it will be a bit flooded. In the near future, there will also be apartments and a medical school here. There's also aeomall next door for convenient shopping for what you need.

Good service. Staff's are very friendly to the patients. Good doctors. There are more than 2 pharmacy. Clean and hygienic wards. There are wending machines which we can get our snacks quickly. Good cafeteria. Theres a children play area in the 8th floor. There are fish tanks in every floor to entertain the kids. There are bill paying machines where you can pay your phone bills or any other bills quickly. There's no free parking, slow elevators.

I had a fantastic experience at Asiri Hospital! The atmosphere is calming and welcoming, creating a comfortable environment. The staff members were incredibly friendly and attentive, making me feel well taken care of throughout my visit. Additionally, their easy-to-access services made the whole process smooth and hassle-free. I highly recommend Asiri Hospital for anyone seeking quality care in a pleasant setting.

The service of this pharmacy at the ground floor is terrible. I had to wait about 20 minutes in the front desk to handover my prescription. There is no clear procedure to purchase the medicines. The front pharmacist guy takes too much time to read the prescription. Once you pay, still have to wait like another 20,25 minutes in the queue to collect your meds. Certainly, not satisfied at all about the service from the ground floor pharmacy.

No one can do wrong. Worst experience I've ever had with an online appoinment. By mistake I had set up a physical appointment for an audio appointment. But there is nothing else to do but act like that. Shame on you Durdens. keep my money.

My wife and I go for a medical check up every year to Durdans Hospital due their quality service over the years. However, I was surprised about their service level this time. No one is caring for us and no one to guide us. There was a meal for our package. We waited more than half an hour in the cafeteria to receive our meal like beggars. But nothing received. Then we left the hospital without having breakfast even though we had paid for it. Highly disappointed.

Durdans Hospital in Colombo is an exceptional healthcare facility that leaves a lasting impression with its warm and friendly staff, ensuring every patient receives the utmost care and attention. Our experience at this hospital was nothing short of outstanding, starting with the welcoming and compassionate staff members who made us feel at ease from the moment we arrived. The rooms at Durdans Hospital were thoughtfully designed with patient comfort in mind. From the cozy beds to the well-appointed amenities, they provided a comfortable and soothing environment throughout our stay. The hospital took care of every need, ensuring that essential items like toiletries, towels, and water bottles were readily available, eliminating any worries for patients and their families. One of the highlights of our experience was the attention to the patient's dietary needs. Durdans Hospital went above and beyond by providing food and tea to ensure the patient's well-being during their recovery. The meals were prepared with care and consideration, catering to individual preferences and dietary restrictions. The comfortable bed with a control panel allowed the patient to adjust their position and find the optimal level of comfort. This thoughtful feature enhanced the recovery process, allowing patients to rest and recuperate in a personalized manner. The 24-hour service at Durdans Hospital further exemplifies their commitment to patient care. We were impressed by the round-the-clock availability of medical staff, ensuring that patients had access to assistance whenever needed. This level of dedication and support is a testament to the hospital's dedication to the well-being of its patients. The well-maintained bathrooms with hot water showers added an extra touch of luxury to our stay. This attention to detail in providing essential amenities contributed to a sense of relaxation and convenience. What set Durdans Hospital apart from others was their consideration for the patient's family or guardian. Even in normal rooms, a bed was provided for the guardian, along with comfortable chairs, a table, and a TV. This thoughtful provision allowed family members to stay close to their loved ones during their hospital stay without compromising on comfort. Budget-friendliness was another aspect that impressed us at Durdans Hospital. Despite offering excellent facilities and services, the hospital was mindful of being accessible to a wider range of patients, making quality healthcare more affordable. In conclusion, Durdans Hospital Colombo is a haven of care and comfort that stands out for its friendly staff, comfortable rooms, and well-thought-out amenities. From the provision of essential items to round-the-clock services and budget-friendly options, every aspect of our experience at this hospital was met with the highest level of care and attention. If you're in need of medical attention in Colombo, Durdans Hospital is undoubtedly an excellent choice that prioritizes your well-being and recovery.

Lanka hospitals offers the latest medical technology. There are good doctors and spacious waiting areas. However, the reception staff, counter staff at the OPD's aren't cordial at all. I was sitting there with my father for almost an hour before another patient told us that we have to get our eyes checked before we go to the doctor, There were no instructions to do so on entrance, nor did the OPD 2 staff enquire, till I went and checked it out. I thought that it was very inconsiderate. The canteen was okay with two food outlets- one serving average food at a very affordable price where as the other took orders.

Utterly disappointed about the behavior of the staff,so unwelcoming and not courteous to come forward and provide service to their customers, I guess the government hospitals have a better service than this hospital. Basically the customers should walk over to the staff and inquire things to detail and they simply make themselves feel at home attending to their very own discussions and etc. customer service is pathetic!! I’m surprised as to how this hospital operates at this rate with an underrated staff with a negative attitude. I’d never chose this hospital over any other,even in an emergency.

Good caring and nice hospitality. Cool and Clean environment. Friendly environment for discussing with doctors and nurses. But you need to wait more than 2 hrs after discharging for finalizing the bill. Also you should double check the bill since it is not reliable. Specially for room charges.

ZERO STAR RATING TO THE WORST HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IN THE ENTIRE WORLD. I want to share my concerns about the National Hospital of Sri Lanka (NHSL), which, despite being the primary government hospital, has some serious issues with its healthcare system. My experiences at NHSL have been quite disappointing, and I feel it's important to bring these matters to everyone's attention. The problems I faced include unprofessional behavior, rudeness, and a lack of empathy from the hospital staff. A significant challenge I observed is the exhaustion of patients due to what seems like a lack of attention and care from the hospital staff. It's disheartening to see patients, already vulnerable, feeling more tired and discouraged by the system meant to provide them with medical support. I also want to express my concern about reported racial bias by some staff members. A healthcare environment should be inclusive, respectful, and free from discrimination. Such behavior goes against medical ethics and can severely impact the well-being of patients. One such example, the security woman in the Endocrine clinic (4th floor) lacks empathy and compassion towards the sick and needy. While I understand the challenges faced by healthcare professionals, it's crucial to maintain a high standard of professionalism to ensure patients receive the care they deserve. These reported issues reflect poorly not only on individual practitioners but on the healthcare system as a whole. It’s true I can’t expect professionalism from NHSL while the country itself is unprofessional and vile but still I felt the need to voice out my opinion.

This on one of the worst and pathetic health systems in the world. The health system we encountered was really sad. It had a lot of problems and things that didn't work well. My mom needed to get an MRI scan, which is an important medical test. But we were told that the scan had to be delayed for a whole month because they didn't have enough ink. We felt very frustrated and disappointed...After waiting for a long time, we finally got instructions to go to the hospital at 8 AM on a certain day. We followed the instructions and arrived even earlier at 7:30 AM. But little did we know that this was just the beginning of a difficult and emotionally draining experience...We were taken to a room where we spent the whole day, waiting anxiously for my mom's turn for the scan. As time went by, I gathered up the courage to ask about the delay many times. Each time, they promised it would only be another hour and told us not to eat anything...The staff didn't show any understanding or kindness towards us. They didn't take our concerns seriously, which made us even more upset. The hours passed by and it started getting late, but there was no progress or communication from them...My mom, who is 61 years old, sat there patiently without eating anything since morning. She looked tired and weak because of it. It hurt me deeply to see her suffer like that... To be honest, I can't recommend this hospital to anyone who needs medical help. But people like us who don't have much money don't have other options or resources to go somewhere else for better care. Private hospitals are too expensive for us...This experience has left a lasting impact on me - it reminds me how broken and inadequate our healthcare system can be for people who are less fortunate. I really hope that one day no one will have to go through such difficult times when they need important medical services.

The doctors and especially the nurses in the hospital are useless. These nurses are often engaged in social media outside the ward and often only one or two nurses stay in the ward and surf social media on smart phones. Even if a patient cries out that it is difficult, they are not looked after. They don't even check if the patients are breathing, and while giving the medicine, they pour water into the mouth of a patient and put a pill and leave without even looking to see if the medicine has been swallowed or swallowed. Patients or caregivers of patients are not told and concealed about the patient's condition. No advice is given. At least they did not say whether the patient was discharged and nurses says that they were discharged only if the patient's guardians forced them to ask. Hygiene of patients is not looked after. Nurses and doctors go about their lives happily letting patients die. The x-rays taken from the patients are not given to the caretakers and are kept with them even after discharge. They are not working for taking salaries from people's tax money. endangering the lives of poor people. I can call them Satan's children.

Hospital

They don't even accept you even in an emergency situation if you are a foreigner. Even as a Hokkaido university student I was told the doctor is busy with other patients and has no time to see a foreign patient... I was standing at the first aid/ emergency section with my hand bleeding.. I was just told to go somewhere else and was handed a printout with an emergency ph no of Sapporo city emergency services ( The irony ) I was just told to call that and try my luck.

in spring and snow 👌

I don't quite understand. Keio University Hospital is a well known hospital BUT no one seems to speak even a very basic english. They all have japanese and english signs all over the hospital but no one knows how to speak it. I mean they don't have japanese only patients, but for me it feels like they only admit japanese because once you try to communicate with them, they mostly just say "no english" and then they leave you alone even if you have a serious health problem. I know expats should learn japanese but what about tourist or guests that only spends a week or two in japan? I come from Germany and we also have expats and foreigners there that hardly speaks any german BUT they don't get turned away by the hospital, because that is ILLEGAL and against the doctor's and healthcare workers OATH (do no harm!). WHAT IS WRONG JAPAN? you make A LOT of advertisement about OMOTENASHI and then you treat non japanese speakers as if they're not worth treating. And this is not the only hospital in Tokyo that do this. DO BETTER!!!

Excellent doctors and staff. I've had two surgeries at this hospital and both have gone very well. I recommend this hospital but if I understand their processes correctly, one needs a referral to go there. They are centrally located, and are right in front of the Shinanomachi station. There's another station close by on the Oedo Line. They have new facilities and parking. They also have motorcycle parking. This is one of the best hospitals in Tokyo in my opinion, but English is not spoken here. If you have a need for a special surgery involving a doctor from another hospital, then you may experience difficulty in having that arranged. I had to forego surgery on my heart there because they did not have a doctor on staff to do what I needed done immediately after the heart surgery. It was breast bone surgery. I had to have the heart surgery and the breast bone work done elsewhere, but the surgeries needed to be done back-to-back. Keio could not do it, which I believe is rare for them. I wish they could have facilitated it. It's a great hospital otherwise.

I went there because my period haven’t stopped in six months. I went there for a biopsy which made the bleeding increase for more than days, accompanied with terrible cramps. I returned urgently there and was treated really poorly by the interns who told me “they couldn’t do anything”that my cramps had probably nothing to do with my uterus ( but i had told them it was the same pain as period pain), and that i should just get painkillers. I really wonder in what world someone can say that is normal to have periods for six months, and bleed for more than ten days after a biopsy. I am deeply disappointed in this lack of professionalism and compassion.

Best hospital in the world. Very kind staff and very good doctors

I'd be indebted to work within this facility as Massage Therapist to help relieve Patients with Stress related issues. Thank you +233241488250

Really really bad Experience with this hospital. I had a visit, I told that I have card EKUZ ask also if I should give it them this later. They say no no i don't need pay anything no problem with anything. After TWO MONTHS they sended me a facture that I have to pay! Really dissapointed, never come here again. During visit with doctor they didn't check what is wrong only give me one pill that's all. Nobody answers the phone either.

Ok

Reception: 1 Emergency care: 2 Telecommunications (phone): 1 Laboratory: 1 Ambulatory care: 1 Accessibility and parking: 1 Hygiene: 3 Medical equipment: 3 Atmosphere and visual decoration: 2 Hospitalization-reception: 2 Hospitalization-rooms: 2 Hospitalization-privacy: 1 Hospitalization-care: 2 Hospitalization-rest and comfort: 2 Hospitalization-amenities: 1 Hospitalization-food: 2 Hospitalization-entertainment: 1 Hospitalization-patient’s rights: 1 Post-hospitalization care: 1 Diagnosis: 1 Doctors’ behavior: 1 Nurses’ behavior: 2 Other staff’s behavior: 3 Doctors’ experience: 2 Nurses’ experience: 2 Outcome: 1 Management and directorate: 1 OVERALL EXPERIENCE: 1

Very bad hospital they cant do any diagnosis for my patient they left her go to home she vomiting and having diarrhea very bad hospital 🤐🤐🤐🤐

I came here at 9 : 15 am . still waiting and now it's 12: 00 pm . I told them that it's urgent I can't wait . i have stomachache. Being a foreigner is not easy in Croatia 🙂 Please don't expect good reviews from foreigners 👎

Banana Republic of Croatia, nonfunctional, corrupt and messy. That is the summary of your wonderful hospitals.

They are the largest hospital center in Croatia and have the best equipment. That's the biggest plus. After that the personal is overworked and somewhat rude; and it gets worse and worse as they climb the hierarchy. Organisation overall is mediocre and dictated directly by politics, failures in organisation are then blamed on the people who work there.

A large hospital dating from the 70s, partly renovated, with many specialties and relatively correct care but very uncertain depending on the services as in many public assistance hospitals in general... We can therefore go there from heaven to hell, often with adorable and caring teams in intensive care or intensive care units and other totally overwhelmed teams with little regard for their patients because they are understaffed in many others services...

On the 3rd floor Orthopedic department: Caregivers, nurse, friendly staff overall 👍 Arthrodesis + laminectomy operation Dr Solène Prost service teacher Tropiano All the pain went well and was well treated. 5 days hospital Return home for 4 weeks to recover peacefully. Then start of physiotherapy rehabilitation.

I was taken to the Urgences here by ambulance and I have never had such an awful experience. The nurse who was looking after me was completely cold and uncaring despite the fact I has a blocked intestine and was not only I’m agony but kept blacking and vomiting. At one point when he saw me vomiting he said “don’t you think you are exaggerating a bit”! It took 6 hours before I had a scan and in that time I was left alone and given no blanket despite being soaked in sweat from the pain. When I finally went upstairs to the operating theatre, the experience was much better. I know this hospital has some great doctors and the surgeon who operated on me did an amazing job. My criticism is uniquely directed at the a&e “urgences” here which is just not good enough. All the staff were uncaring and cold and I felt scared and abandoned which is not what one should feel in hospital. Sorry, but a little more humanity would mean less stress to patients!

My husband and I rushed our son to the hospital last week cos he had a seizure. It was at midnight and they had just one doctor attending to so many people before us so we had to wait for about 7hrs. We were attended to in-between by nurses but the last nurse who came to us started asking some questions that we had already answered over and over again but before she started, she looked at both my husband and I and asked “which one of u can communicate with me better?” We didn’t understand what that meant so my husband asked “what do you mean?” And she said “I need to ask a few questions to whichever one of you can communicate with me better in English” I couldn’t speak out of shock, my husband just walked out of the room cos he didn’t want to get upset, she asked the questions again before I could bring myself to answer her. This was after 6hours of waiting for a doctor. Shortly after, a doctor came in, we were attended to and we left there. The other nurses were sweet but I was disgusted by that nurse thinking we used to live in trees and caves and only spoke gugugaga before coming to Canada.

ACH is so nice that makes me being a kid again, minus sickness. This was my first visit at ACH for my son and we enjoyed the environment.

My son had a very long procedure done in endocrinology, and the nurses there were awesome! They gave my son $15 Apple card for good behavior😄

The best hospital I've ever been to!!! Very good specialists and wonderful smiling nurses❤️ Everyone very helpful. I recommend the neurosurgery (7sal) department without back pain. If I had to have another surgery, it would be there. Best Regards Sylwia ( 08/02/2023 )

If only the hospital maids didn't lie about the waiting time. "You are number 1" 7 hours later still number 1.

During our holidays in denmark we had to go to the emergency in aalborg two times. The doctors and nurses there were always very kind, capable and caring.

The absolute worst hospital that ever existed. Avoid at all costs. The ER had no one at the reception. I had to go look for them. They always make you wait for at least 30 minutes for your scans and tests. They are super insensitive, unprofessional, careless and have the audacity to ask the sick patient to accommodate after a mistake THEY made. This “hospital” should not be in charge of people’s lives.

The worst hospital experience of my life. The staff are lazy and disrespectful. I was billed before I had a consultation or even received the service I paid for which is VERY different than every other hospital I’ve been to. It’s even worse because the physician wasn’t even there when I was billed for a consultation with him, he came 45 minutes late! To sum it up, my appointment was at 10 am, the doctor came at 10:45. I wasn’t offered an explanation until I asked for one. They gave me three different excuses: traffic, emergency, physician is sick with stomach problems. The nurse was probably the most undertrained nurse I’ve had to deal with. Extremely unethical and unprofessional. She was talking about me with the rest of the staff in front of me (not for professional reasons but to simply complain that she has to deal with an annoyed customer in the morning). She suggested that since my doctor was late, that I should book with another doctor so i asked for a list of the doctors I can see today, she told me to look for it myself on the website :) when I was looking through the doctors, that’s when she mentioned that there was no point since there was only one other physician who was in the clinic and he had an upcoming appointment. Total waste of time and very unprofessional.

Writing a review specifically about the Maternity floor where I spent one of the most difficult weeks of my life post-delivery. I've had beyond painful complications but the Nurses & Doctors there (You know who you are!) who took care of me helped push through in the sweetest, most giving and empathetic way! I'm beyond grateful for you and I will never forget what you've done for me and for my baby! You are all angels helping people when they need it the most! So much love for you all!

Today we visited the allergy department with our child. I really liked the service. The doctor spoke very nicely with my child. The inspection was good. We did an allergy test. Everything is fine and I'm very happy😊

My husband received wonderful care at A&E and intensive care after experiencing a heart attack on holiday last October 2022. Speedy treatment and attentive nursing while in CHU for two weeks prior to repatriation to the UK. Could not have had better treatment. A huge thank you to the doctors and staff who looked after him. We are very grateful.

My brother Christopher had the most excellent care in accident and emergency for a pulmonary embolism. I know he is very grateful to the drs and nurses that night. They were kind caring and amazingly speedy to diagnose and find a medication. Compared to the normal experience in the U.K. the French system that night was incredible and they also called him back for a check up in a week, again with an amazing dr so sympathetic, that would be two to three months in the U.K. The staff treated him with dignity and compassion. A massive thank you to all there

I got the referral of a doctor, ginecologist for a problem that I have been dealing for too long. The doctor received me in few days after the contact and was quite receptive to my concerns and requests which required diligent action in a short period of time due to my work leave (also very short). We set a date for the sugery and I was impressed that the contact was very speedy and allowed me to send every remaining document by email . I asked for a quotation of the total price, that was sent to me few days prior to the sugery, in which stated the total value of the intervention and hospital fees. All the inconvenience started after surgery: the nurses not atentive at all, always in a rush to fill you up with drugs and leaving you behind without even trying to understand what was going on for each case since they receive many pacients for plastic surgery therefore they assume all patients are there for the same " vain" reasons. I was there for other reasons, but even so I had paid my entire bill like anyone, so I deserved the private quality service I was paying for. The health assistants were also very rude and whenever I would press the button to call for assistance during night shifts , they were the first to come instead of medical nurses and they were the ones to evaluate weather you were or not entitled to be given assistance. I required very scarce times their assistance and just preferred to crawl by my on and manage what I needed. I stumbled once and no one came to check up on me, if there were consequences. Water was giving rarely, some would save the bottles if you had other sitting on the night stand. 3 days enduring that, without being able to complain, or having relatives come and check for me. My family leaved in another city. (Husband who stayed with the kids). After i left the nurse who took the last cateter made me bleed perfusively and i almost fainted. The personel took me to take the cab with no wheelchair, I had to walk for 10 min after being laying for 3 days. I have been living in Paris, hospitalized there, lived in US also hospitalized there, been in a private clinic in Brazil where I gave birth South africa private hospitals and also were really wonderfully treated. This was by far the WORST experience and service provider! NEVER will I recommend it nor use it any time !

I have contacted hospital via email on 03.10.2023, to specify the price of chemotherapy course for my father. Today is already 30.10.2023, and I still didnt get any response. I am not a doctor, but I am sure that response for a people who need a chemotherapy course couldn't be around one month. In case you value the lives of your loved ones, please do not contact this place.

Infrastructure of the clinic is a disaster. I couldn't even find an elevator to other floor, then I waited for 15 minutes in wrong places, it its not clear where to go, no one tell you the right place to wait. Why not to do 1 reception and then lead people to consultation directly, this micro management is awful