Lyme disease treatment in 191 Neurosurgery clinics in Europe

I would like to thank the doctors of this clinic who operated on my father. It was a very complicated operation related to a cervical hernia, the work was performed at a high level. Operated by I.P. Kuriletsi, O.V. Shvets. and Polishchuk A.O. I want to say something special about Andriy Oleksandrovich, as he was our doctor who guided us from the first appointment to discharge. I have never seen such incredible doctors who do their work with such care and passion. He is very meticulous about everything, listens carefully to the patient and gives recommendations. Consults and answers questions at any time. Andriy Oleksandrovich Polishchuk is really a doctor from God who works according to his vocation. Separately, I want to write to those who write that the Moscow State University rents something somewhere. People operate, not walls, it doesn't matter where, the main thing is who does it and how. My father was operated on in September 2023 on the basis of the University Clinic, there is already a separate floor for the team of the Medical Center. The clinic itself is very wonderful, although of course you have to pay for comfort like everywhere else.

Today I was with my mother-in-law for a consultation at the center of neurosurgery in the city of Stryi. We are very grateful and extremely impressed by the professionalism, humanity and kindness of neurosurgeon Volodymyr Andriyovych Zakharko!

I had an intervertebral hernia and could not walk. Once in the hospital, Dr. Shvets and his team performed an operation and got me back on my feet. I now lead an active lifestyle and can walk again. I am very grateful to them, thank you very much for their work and attitude towards patients!

Good day. My name is Olena, I am from the city of Khmelnytskyi. I am writing my review in this format to show the REAL picture. On March 27, my mother was operated on in this center (brain tumor) by doctor Taras Stepanovych Gavryliv. To say that I thank him is not enough. Because he is a doctor from whom everyone should take an example. Responsible, tactful and, in general, professionally treats his patients and people in general. It has been more than half a year since the operation. My mother feels great. She speaks, she is not paralyzed as they told me in our hospital, as they told me in Kyiv. I will also tell you that I don't have a week without people contacting me to get some information, feedback. Because I understand the things that I myself had to go through. But in the center of Neurosurgery, everything is so well thought out, everything is so professionally selected that you fully surrender yourself to the doctor and are no longer afraid. I read a bad review about resuscitation. I do not know of such a case, I have not seen with my own eyes sloppy treatment of people on the part of the staff, and I myself, believe me, do not have a very good character!!! The doctors in the intensive care unit looked after the patients normally and professionally. I was even amazed, and I saw and heard the feedback of other people, patients. I was once given such advice that I would listen to my doctor with my heart. Так і сталося ! working from 8 a.m. to 10 p.m., doctor Taras Stepanovych also held online consultations late in the evening. And he did not pick up the phone, did not grumble on the phone, but on the contrary, gave answers calmly, answering questions, reassuring. Я дуже , дуже рекомендую цю клініку і свого лікаря . Я писала пост в фейсбуці на рахунок лікарні ,щоб люди знали що є таке місце де допоможуть , де не скалічать , де не стоіть питання перше - скільки ви маєте коштів ! я зверталася по місцю в нас в управління охорони здоров"я , з питанням - ЧОМУ ????? чому в нас не можна таке зробити всюди ????? в кожному місті !!! Чому в нас діє тільки коррупція . А питання о житті паціента стоіть на останньому місті . ? Я не бот , я не наймана людина центру Володимира Смоланки . Я - звичайний пацієнт . І дуже дуже дякую лікареві Тарасу Степановичу та його команді за спасіння моєї мами . Бо коли ще живі батьки, то і діти почувають себе - дітьми .

3 weeks ago, I came to this hospital for rehabilitation, but it turned out that it was necessary to perform a lower back operation and correct the mistake of another doctor. Thank you very much to Dmytro Serhiyovych Sikorsky and Oleksandr Oleksandrovich Yarty for correcting the mistake and taking care of me throughout my stay in the hospital. Thank you for teaching me how to sit down and try to stand up. Regarding rehabilitation, we can only wish for the best. While the head of rehabilitation is Kateryna Oleksandrivna Zinov'eva - I do not recommend it.

From the bottom of our hearts, we would like to thank the best professional in his field, MYTRIK IVAN IVANOVYCH, and his well-coordinated team for their true professionalism. Ivan Ivanovich is a doctor from God and a man with a capital letter. A huge thank you and a low bow for your work, patience and sincerity, for your golden hands and for a successful operation for my mother, who once again experienced the taste of life, namely walking on her own feet, without any help. THANKS.

I would like to express my deep gratitude to the gastroenterology department and all the staff. To the doctors - Fedoruk Oksana Stepanovna, head of the department and attending physician Sinyavskaya Alexandra Vladimirovna. These are people who are in their places. Caring, attentive, always on the lookout for our interests and health. All procedures are prescribed and carried out comprehensively and in a timely manner. Additional examinations are sought to be carried out with other specialists. Open, honest and professional. This department is like one family. Cleanliness, attentiveness to patients. All the staff tries to make our life more comfortable. We wish there were more departments like this)

I would like to express my deepest gratitude to the radiological department from my father Vladimir Ostapuk, who received treatment from you and from me personally! Thank you very much to all the staff and the head of the department, Valentin Eduardovich! Good health to you and thank you for your concern!

I have been in the anti-tuberculosis dispensary since April 25, of these 16 days I was treated (examined) for only 4-5 days. The conditions here are terrible (the best word I could find). Cockroaches, food, as well as the negligence of the attending doctors and staff, is worse than ever. If it were possible to put stars in minus, then we would have collected all -5. I don’t advise anyone to come here, or even end up in the hospital.

Good treatment center. The doctors and medical staff are wonderful. They performed an operation on my husband and gave him back the ability to walk. My great gratitude. There is a minus, but it relates to the city authorities; parking spaces have not been thought out. This is some kind of horror!!! Parking is impossible. A line of cars along the road from stop to stop and beyond. There are no places for disabled people at all.

26.10. In 2023, I had an operation to remove a neuroma (neurosurgeons Kakaev A.M. and Stankevich S.K.), everything went well and I am very grateful to them, professional, polite and attentive doctors. All the service staff are good and know their jobs. Thanks to this center for its work.

The service staff is good. But neurosurgeon A.M. Kakaev and Stankevich S.K. butchers. All they have to do is cut up the wild boar and separate the fat from the meat. A neuroma formed at the suture of the ulnar nerve after neuroplasty, which caused pain in the fingers. At the consultation they said that it would not be a problem to remove the neuroma, it would not affect the motor skills of the hand, and the pain would disappear. As a result, the integrity of the nerve was compromised and the pain increased two to three times.

I had a great experience giving birth at UKE. everyone working there was super nice, cooperative and friendly at the registration and at the Kreißaal as well as in the postpartum care. We requested the family room, which became available in few hours post our request ( you do need to keep following up the availability status of the room til you get it though ) For the mom, you need to get a shirt/ dress to give birth in. And pjs for afterwards as well as the bathing supplies For the baby, you will only need to have the go home outfit and maybe a pacifier. All else will be supplied by the hospital. The meals served are really good too. Not the typical tasteless hospital food .. you will need to have some snacks with you for in between the meals especially if you’re planning on breastfeeding. All in all, i had a really good experience and highly recommend the hospital

Waste of time! I got food posioned and waited for hours! Nobody checked me and I had to leave because another patient came and told us she was waiting for 7 hours. I mean this is an emergency, it shouldn't be like that. Aside from all these stuff there was very rude. I was fighting with pain and with the people at the same time. Not even talking about the money I paid for the taxi because I thought I can get help here. I don't know what I am gonna do if I ever have more risky situations like that. This has to be changed.

18 year old friend of mine has been hospitalized due to a tumor. because of a so called "emergency" a vacation had to be cancelled and he didn't even make it into the infirmary. during the operation they managed to injure the liver (which isn't exactly spottet on the head) and he was in a critical state. he died less than a week after the operation and the doctors had the audacity to say "have a nice evening". worst hospital ever. will make sure none of my loved one's ever go there again.

My worst experience in a hospital for far. My room is beside a place that are remodeling, 12 hours of the sound of a hammer constantly. Due my operation I can not eat solids, so the only thing they are offering me is pocket soup, no veggies no fruits, nothing. And forget about to find the manager, she is never in the office, and she will never pick up the phone. The personal in my station are good the most of them, the problem in hospital is systematic.

The most irresponsible and unprofessional team I've ever met. My oparation was cancelled one day before the last minute, after all the preparation. Even worse, for more than one month, no apologize, no explaination and no call back to arrange a new time for the oparation.

Worst hospital I have ever been too. They are under staffed and under funded and care more about making money then care of patients. Cancelled appointments without letting patients know due to broken equipment and staff shortages. You would get batter care in a third world country hospital. Asklepios is a shinning example of how broken the German Medical System is.

The worst experience with the treatment for an international patient. The hospital arranged for us viewing for a cardiology patient. We travelled from a far away to be there (having paid a huge lump some that was supposed to be used for the tests etc). Instead - the person who took blood tests did not even wear PPE, the doctor who saw us had not even read our history (having sent if a month before), did not do any meaningful tests that would bring us to the diagnosis, still waiting for the anamnesis (and prescriptions) to be sent to us after over two weeks.

Thank you so much to the orthopedics team and everyone at station M120. They gave me a new ACL after I tore it, the operation went perfectly, and the care I received after was outstanding. I prepared for the worst, but the friendliness and professionality of the staff made everything so, so much better.

The staffs are friendly, and they saved my friend, so 5 stars for sure. However, if it’s possible, I hope I’d never need to come here even they have a great view outside of the window. Stay healthy 🤲

I am a professional who moved here to contribute to uplift industrial activity in my own area. Heard great input from friends on Helios, about English speaking staff, better handling than long and declining German medical system. When registered my wife for birth and checkup at the last stage of pregnancy - and recently visited, the rooms are hot (making the patient more inconvenient), then we requested female doctor/nurse due to our own comfort and values, but instead when the female doctor arrived she ended up giving me lecture to understand their culture, you are in germany, even in your home country there are only Male doctors & Staff (which she doesn't know 60-70% of medical employees are female in my home country). She was straight forward denying the service if we do not agree on the male attendant. We had no other option but to say yes, however, this has been traumatic experience turned from a happy moment. As a Service provider the doctor should be able to provide a relaxing and comfortable environment. And the treatment was not something that couldn't be done alone when requested. It was a one person job, she could have do it herself, but forced to have male attendant to just hand over tissues or so. And even after that told me to expect male attendant regardless you want or not during delivery.. Service providing is the key. highly disappointed.

I could put 0 or -5 if that was possible. I guess 1 star goes to nursing personnel some of whom were nice. My mother was admitted there with stomach cancer and fluids in abdomen supposedly for immune therapy (we know it is a last resort). Doctor (Ali Nuri Hunerliturkoglu) even wasn't fully aware of the diagnosis at the admission. At putting the port for immune therapy/chemotherapy, lung was punctured leading to an infection. Biopsy results were late, hence no promised immune therapy was provided just a general, non-specific chemotherapy, which weakened the patient together with hospital-induced punctured lung and infection to the point of not being able to walk and normally function. No help at all, just prolonging of suffering. To top it off, transportation to pick her up and deliver home was not allowed to approach hospital premises and a lying patient on a rolling bed had to be transported for 10 minutes outside in the cold. Avoid if possible

I had this year three operations in Krefeld hospital.Two of them was not planned one of them was planned.Everything goes smootly.Personal are very friendly doctors also will try to explain everything till the end.Food quality also not that bad like hospital food.My plate was empty always.I had only one small minus the pillow for your head its like a carpet to clean your shoes so tin and not comfy at all 😀 Even this hospital is one hour where i live but anyway i would always choose this hospital and recommendate to others

one day I was very sick and had to go to the Emergency. They said they would not treat me. Because I had to be referred to the home doctor first. I wonder which house doctor can be reached at 4 in the morning? They didn't treat me and I wasn't even able to walk. I cried and had to go to another hospital. Besides, the staff working there were very rude. They were talking to me as if they were shouting at me. And even when I asked some questions, they wouldn't even answer me. They didn't even look at me because I was a foreigner. I do not recommend it to anyone. If I had fainted there, I think they would have referred me to a home doctor.

I visited for the second time the emergency today. The first time nobody could point out a doctor as nobody could speak even a little bit English. Today I found a kind lady in the morning reception who gave me instructions to come again at 18:00, visit the 1st floor, to see a doctor for my emergency. I did. As I arrived I said that I don't speak German. None of the assistamts there could speak. They kept my Insurance Card and I was waiting for my turn. I heard my name and a nurse gave me a cup to pee. I used google translate to ask what the cup has to do with my pain and if they have at least someone speaking a little bit English to say what my problem was. They were explaining to me in German and as I could not understand they were just rolling eyes. If you are German prepare to get some rude responses as the specific assistant was yelling to people. If you do not speak German prepare to die as the punishment for not knowing German is death. I feel very disappointed

Really shocking service - be ready to waste your time. I wonder - what would the world be like if we all had the same attitude to each other as the staff do to their patients? HORRIBLE

My father has been coming to this medical clinic since 2008. He was diagnosed with blood cancer, and we have been coming here ever since from Armenia. I can happily say that my father is cancer free, and people in here truly cared about him, did the best they could, and always kept in touch. Our experience has been nothing but great here. Based on our experience, I can firmly say that I highly recommend this clinic. We visit them once every 1-2 years at least, and the experience been nothing but great. Thank you very much for taking care of my father. I'm forever grateful, God bless you and your family.

Can "Booking Health GmbH" organize a medical program at Helios dkd Wiesbaden?

Absolutely amazing.. from beginning consultations, staff at reception, HNO... all the way down to the operation itself.. I am very very pleased. The ward, staff, and best of all Dr Aziz.. were amazing. One thing I didnt like.. (but I'm not going to let that stop me giving 5 stars).. is the staff in the holding area before and (especially) after the OP. They weren't friendly at all.. before the operation, the guy seemed like he wasn't happy to be there.. like he was fed up with everything and everyone.. Never in my life has a cannula caused me so much pain.... But worst of all.. after the Operation.. even though I was still coming out of the anesthesia, I was fully aware of my surroundings... the female nurse there was busy trying to complete some online course, but because her computer kept freezing or something, she kept shouting and swearing. My mouth was dry and wasn't sure if I was allowed to drink so I asked politely for a sponge used to moisten the mouth.. She just shrugged off my request and didnt help me.. I did later finally get a sip of water from the fed up male attendant.. being in pain and having to listen to the screeching insults being hurled at a PC, wasn't a pleasant experience. However, as soon as the assistant surgeon gave me the adequate pain relief and I was on the ward.. everything was great again. The staff on ward D2 deserve a pay rise. Loved every minute.. The ward itself is very cozy and rooms were luxury.. Best coffee machine ever!! All staff there were very attentive to my needs and helped in any way they could. The aftercare is also amazing.

Never go here, Please. Dr. Julia Brzoska promotes in Doctorlib reception of publicly insured patients, but they do not. They have unqualified personal on the front desk unaware fully of regulations. It wasted my time in such a delicate topic. They are another private clinic sustained by marketing.

Most Traumatizing Medical Experience Ever! While the Meo clinic might impress with its aesthetics and cordial staff, its administrative and financial aspects are deeply flawed: Lack of Transparency: I never received a clear financial breakdown for my treatments, and attempts to seek clarity were met with resistance. Billing Issues: A year post-treatment, I got bills escalated to collection agencies and court by PVS, an outsourced payment firm used by many of the clinic's doctors. The initial bills of approximately 3800 EUR more than doubled. Worse, the bills had incorrect patient details. Missing Medical Records: Despite continuous requests over two years, I've only gotten records from one out of the four doctors I saw. A recent visit revealed a mere two notes from 22 visits and a few prescription copies – no record of MRI/MRT scans, ultrasounds, cancer tests, or blood tests. Poor Communication: The clinic's staff claim that doctors operate autonomously and aren't answerable to them. The doctors, on the other hand, blame PVS, their invoice firm. PVS remains unresponsive, creating a maddening loop of non-accountability. Legal Issues: While withholding necessary medical documentation from me, the clinic keeps adding to my bills via lawyers. They know I need the documents for insurance, but continue to stonewall all communication attempts, even from my insurance provider. In summation, my experience with the Meo clinic has been nothing short of a nightmare. Despite promises of proficient service and clear English communication (given my expat status during the Covid lockdowns), I've received neither medical results nor proper documentation of treatments. Their blatant disregard and lack of support have left me feeling abused and overlooked. I warn potential patients, especially international and EU visitors to Germany, to be cautious before visiting this clinic! Expect zero documentation, no effective communication, and exorbitant bills. This clinic seems indifferent to the profound impacts such negligence might have on your life, expecting you to bear costs out-of-pocket despite insurance coverage. The only "documentation" you might get are bills from PVS that state amounts without any clear patient context. When reaching out to the clinic for help they clearly state that they aren’t responsible for any of “their doctors”… but at the same time advertise their clinic as a fully integrated medical institution that takes care of everything for you as their patent! It’s absolutely scandalous!

**EDIT TO RESPOND TO COMMENT*** While I understand the reply is mainly to manage reputation for people reading this review, I spent 35 minutes trying to 'rectify' the issue in the clinic and was met with eye rolls and sighs from unhelpful management. I understand there are protocols to follow in regards to billing, it is just a shame that this time it seems those protocols weren't adhered to and extra charges were added. I believe my email address and phone number are on file so I am happy to discuss further if you wish to reach out. ------ ORIGINAL POST Quoted €80-150 for a doctors consultation and after a 12 minute consultation was given a bill for €394,88. Was eventually discounted by €80 euros as was able to show I was charged for services I didn’t receive but still was grossly overcharged and my lack of speaking German was taken advantage of (one small example was my 12 minute consultation was charged as “Mind. 20mins” which the obnoxious manager tried to tell me means “under 20 minutes” and wouldn’t change). Even when you do the right thing and ask for a price upfront you still get ripped off. Please think twice before attending this clinic as they are not upfront at all and are very deceitful. The receptionist was good and very apologetic but all other staff dealt with were rude and unhelpful. The final explanation is “I’m sorry but the professor can charge what he wants and won’t change anything”. Be careful if you don’t speak German as you will likely get overcharged too.

Very kind and caring staff who took care of me when I was admitted with an ambulance in the middle of the night. Big respect!

Good services, but the emergency wasn't fast! Reception of emergency was so unfriendly, and rude!

Experience with this hospital could be described in two words - HORRENDOUS and UNPROFFESIONAL.. At the reception they lost my ID card. After two phone calls and one visit, the hospital reluctantly assured me that they didn't have it, which is why I couldn't fly back to my country and my flyticket was forfeited. After a few weeks, without notifying me by text/call/email (even though they had all my contact info) they sent me this ID card by post (after it had already been blocked).. The invoice that came home cost 190 € even though the hospital told me the price would be around 60 €. This whole situation was made worse by the unhelpful and unpleasant attitude of the staff. It had cost me lot of time and money and the hospital didn’t do anything to make up for the inconvieniences caused.

Cardiology sent me to ER for a heart issue (atrial flutter). Dr. Garabetyan totally ignored that, and ended up fabricating a non-existent pneumonia. She then IV’ed a fluoroquinolone (floxed me) w/o my knowledge or consent. I now have permanent disability (FQAD), which includes peripheral and small fiber neuropathy, tendinopathy, vitreous detachment (floater) and myriad other disorders and symptoms. Nobody cares, they gaslight you. Be careful.

I visited emergency room in this hospital. Had an acute abdominal pain. I do not speak Spanish well and was afraid of misunderstanding but all hospital staff, physicians and nurses, were very polite and tried to speak with me in English. Also all analysis, CT and medicines were done in a timely manner. Finally, I went home with required treatment. Thank you All!

Thank you very much for safe my life, ZABALETA CARVAJAL, IVAN ANDRES🙏🧚🏻‍♂️and hospital very nice clean comfortable convenient

The new rooms in the new area of the hospital are nice, clean and modern, but the old rooms in the old part of the hospital need to be refurbished, they do not live up to the hospital standards. The food was very basic, not much flavor and for the price of a day stay in the hospital the food should be better quality, taste better and have options on what you would like to have. They also need to improve the wifi/phone signal because nor the wifi nor the internet from my mobile phone provider worked in my room. The television only had Spanish channels and for a high quality hospital one should have international channels in English and other languages. The personal attention was great, the nurses and doctor where amazing. They took excellent care of me.

Had a surgery here and it went very well, staff were working with upmost care and respect. Compared to most hospitals in the US where I'm from, this one deserves 5 stars for the quality and value.

Terrible hospital. The staff are very unfriendly, and if you struggle to speak Spanish they will not put any effort in to try help you in English. I have been there twice in the past 4 weeks for the same issue and the doctor always just prescribes ibeprufon when it’s clear my situation has gotten worse. They also don’t have any equipment, he used his iPhone as a torch and put a pencil in a latex glove and used that to push my tongue down to examine my throat. Completely pathetic the service one gets from this “private” hospital.

I booked an appointment via their online platform with the Diagnostica d’imatge department, because I needed to take a MRI exam for my leg. In the online platform I uploaded my traumatology doctor’s referral where it says I should have two MRI exams taken, one in a rested state and another one after running for 20 minutes to see the difference in my muscle. I even sent the referral via email to the Diagnostica d’imatge department in order to make sure they knew about the fact that I need to make two exams and not only one. They didn’t answer to that email even though I asked for confirmation of receipt. I had no luck reaching the right department via telephone because I don’t speak Spanish or Catalan so well so I gave up on trying to get a confirmation that way. Anway, when I arrived on the day of my appointment, the secretary in the Diagnostica d'imatge department told me that I should have booked two appointments instead of one and it was a problem, but she will try her best to find a solution. I was afraid because I came to Barcelona only for this appointment (I live 3 hours away from the city). After waiting for around 20 minutes the secretary (her name was Andrea, I think) called me and confirmed that I can take the two exams one after the other right away! Eventually everything turned out well and the staff was super friendly, even when I only spoke English. Big thank you again Andrea you saved my day!! :)

Excellent service . Professional doctores and they take care of their patients in a very human way

Im calling all day to cancel an appointment with traumatology, no answer all day, it's been always like that i have to keep calling for hours maybe they pick up the phone, but today no one pick up the phone.

I had to attend the oftalmología urgencias department and the four staff present treated me fantastically. This was on Saturday October 7, and they were busy all day. I had lots of tests and was given an appointment to return on Monday to the main department for a revision. Spain really has the best public care in the world, I'm sure of it. Muchas gracias.

The urgent care facility is dirty, poorly organized. The staff engages in unsanitary practices: trash receptacles-including those that take hazardous waste are left uncovered, and you often see trash littering the floor around the trash cans. Also, multiple patients are asked to sit and lie on the same paper covering on the examining tables. I saw this in multiple examining rooms. The doctor who cared for me, Manuel Luis Gomez Blanco, was rude, impatient and haughty. He tried to dismiss me after treating me for only one of the ailments I came for. It was a very unpleasant experience, but I was able to get the treatment I sought. I just should not have had to deal with such an unprofessional environment and uncaring treatment by staff. I am fortunate my ailments were not life threatening.

I didn’t even want to give you a star. First this La Paz hospital is not friendly to English speaking patients. For international tourists or expats! You will die here . I brought my daughter to their ER. She was having shortness of breath..due to her asthma exacerbation. they made us wait for 3 hours but no treatment given nor tests done. Horrible private hospital. I went to see the doctor to tell her that my daughter needs to be nebulized. Instead of talking to me properly. They sent me out because none of them speaks English and they said wait to be called ! For 3 hours of waiting nobody gave my child management nor diagnostic procedure ! They didn’t care as to what I was pleading for . i will complain to Adeslas my health insurance and will make a report on this . I’m a dermatologist and a medical journalist from the philippines. I know the management to asthma very well. Their doctors/ nurses are all rude and with no empathy to patients. They should have. English speaking representative for the tourists coming to Spain. It’s pathetic that they have no treatment .-

I was lucky enough to be hospitalised here (you know what I mean) : without exception the doctors, nurses and auxiliaries were nothing less than superb. I thank them all!

Private hospital based in Pamplona and Madrid. It is worth making the trip to attend any of its specialties, which are not few. In my case, they have given us endless possibilities. All staff are attentive, they explain each intervention/treatment in detail and work with insurance. Everything is organized and they have professionals for everything. Appointments are usually on time, the waiting time in the room is short. There is a parking lot right in front. We will repeat and I recommend this clinic.

An incredible service, the best hospital I have ever been too. Bedside manner from doctors, nurses, and all staff is fantastic

Excellent quality services and precision !

My first experience of having an angiogram- the staff were very kind and helpful and always with a smile. It makes the situation easier to handle ! Thank you to Doctor Rosencher and his wonderful team !

Disorganized and borderline incompetent: i was sent back and forth between the 2 locations and found in both places incompetent personnel. They are unable to keep to the scheduled appointment and on too of all, no doctor is available to issue the report of the examination. Just plain incompetence, avoid this place.