Major liver resection in 210 Oncology clinics in Europe

For more than 2 weeks I have been waiting for the laboratory results of my daughter who is less than 2 years old. “We will call you” was an important test since she has been there many times. Very irresponsible

very good hospital, helpful doctors, you have to wait longer for admission, but I still like it here.

Best Hospital I've ever been to. Friendly and qualified staff. Very Carina.

Great experience with the trauma department on November 29, 2023. Empathy meeting professionalism! Thank you very much to the whole team!. True heroes !

Saturday 11 of November 2023 , I had severe pain in my legs and repeated chest pain plus confusion as result of 4 days non sleep ! After 16 hours in the Ambulance the doctor she sent me to psychology KH nord ! She said all OK just !!! W+÷×+=% ,Big Thanks to KH Nord they discovered thrombosis in my lower body and i am still under treatment as result of wrong and late diagnosis . Guys I just got confused again what to say to this Dr ? Any one please feel free to recommend what to say and what to do ? I just got shocked.

I had a emergency where I had to get surgery straight away to repair my broken jaw,Unfortunately my insurance didn't go through so i dont know who I'm angry with. I was waiting two days in one of the bedrooms until some bald guy in a white coat entered my room asking me for €3400 in card or cash, I thought it was a nightmare but I didn't wake up. He explained to me that I was not covered by insurance and that I should start making payments, I went down to the office and they confirmed he was in my room asking for money, The result was me getting up in the worst state to go sort out my insurance so that I could get my emergency operation done a little later and be covered by my insurance so that Inkasso won't chase me for like €30.000 Note that nobody at this point told me to stay in hospital get your jaw fixed first and sort your insurance out later because they can back track everything, instead I was set into confusion when they asked that I pay them cash or card. I was there for two days in the worst pain and didn't receive surgery but a bill for £3400 which was not covered by my insurance I left the hospital and sent all the rest of my documents to AMS and OGK and sorted my insurance. Later I arrived at hospital to find out that they checked me out automatically and wouldn't treat me straight away. I was sent home and a swelling started to occur on my face where I realised that I was sent home with a medical emergency so I went back to the hospital as soon as I could and eventually they accepted me back. I spent from 29.10.2023 to 15.11.2023 waiting for my jaw treatment, after the swelling went away they decided to give me the operation and they told me the waiting time is because there where other patients in need more then me and I had a swelling. Now I'm recovering from my surgery but I'm not sure if my surgery went one hundred percent correctly, the results are yet to come. The point is if your not Covered by insurance stay in hospital regardless if they start asking for cash or card and sort your insurance out later because if you leave the hospital you might not get the treatment you really require being a Austrian citizen won't help you get the free medical treatment you really need if you don't have insurance. However they must treat you if you have a medical emergency and you can get it sorted out later. Also Google maps didn't let me post this information so I wrote it in English let's if they block this info this time it's not right people shouldn't of gone through what I went through at the beginning when I had a medical emergency. My wobbly jaw was waiting to get repaired but I was plagued by the though of no insurance and having a struggle of my lifetime as a result. I was promised an operation from day 1 but ended up having it on like day 16 Long waiting times for operations beware make use you have insurance but if not stay in hospital and get your insurance sorted out later if I'm wrong let me know Anyway it's like day 20 after my injury and spent like 18 days in hospital, regardless of how my hospital stay started I come to a realization that I was treated very well at this hospital and I'm thankful for my surgery and all the hospital stuff for taking care of my issues I had a bad start because my insurance was not going through but however the operation did go well, after my wound heels I'll have to go to a specialist to see if they can straighten out my jaw so that I can have a better smile.

Open letter to Profesor Zielinski I wanted to tell you that I’m very disappointed with you and your clinic. Now, after my father’s death and Mr. Suta’s (the patient from Targu Mureș) also I’m convinced that you are guided only by profits and you are not concerned about the wellbeing of patients. We have sent you translated medical reports, pet CT’s and other imagistic investigations, blood tests and you didn’t even have the decency to look over them and tell us it’s not worth making the trip giving how advanced was their condition. You could have done what the doctors from Szeged hospital did for me and say that there is nothing you could do for my father and with regrets I cannot take your money and leave our country with a negative perception about our medical services. They said that because they looked over the investigations I sent them. But no sir you were too blinded by money and we were so desperate to save our fathers that we believed you. Shame on you. I guarantee these are words well thought and not said in anger.

All the people super friendly. If something took longer, it was only because there were patients who needed to be treated more urgently. Some people probably forget that here in the evaluation. As far as you can say about a hospital stay, I had a good time there.The staff is international and with many languages. (Team 5 Nord)I have heard German, Russian, English and also Hungarian, Ukraine, Rumanian, and many others. Thank you very much, indeed

I was diagnosed with serous ovarian carcinoma and after resection of the carcinoma by a Romanian doctor, director of a private hospital in Bucharest, in a boundless desperation I contacted the best clinics in the world, specialized in oncology. The commercial representative of the WPK hospital, Mr. Alexandru Pop, was the first to contact us and was the only one who convinced us to buy tickets to Vienna. We had all the appointments made by the minute, he walked with us and empathized every moment. Thanks to him, I got to the best specialist in gynecological surgery, the most wonderful woman who rushed all my procedures in order to be able to proceed with the surgery. In the worst moment of my life, when I read despair on the children's faces and I felt helplessness and frustrated, this wonderful woman, , Prof. Dr. B. Schurz, gave us a chance. The hospitalization period was 8 days and I received the best care possible. The staff was by far very professional and very empathetic, as well as the nurses. I felt treated like a family member. The sales representative came to me twice a day, called me and asked me all the time what else I needed or if I was satisfied. Because of my diagnosis, even if I came at the very early stages, I will still have to proceed with 6 chemotherapy sessions with one of the best oncologists in the world, Prof. Dr. Zielinski. I recommend the clinic with great confidence.

I went to emergency at 9 pm. I got bleeding from my uterus and very painful Stomachache, I am bleeding non-stop like 3 days continuing and the doctor asked me "Why are you here?" Asked me two times and I explained my symptoms and she told me to take pain killers without checking my bleeding things. PS. I am not on My period right now and I am still bleeding until now! What a Unprofessional Doctor! No any patients would like to go to Emergency if they really do not need help!

We were in an emergency situation where we were informed to reach the BDU department. Unfortunately it was the wrong department for the treatment which was needed but the BDU department saw to it that they won't even touch the patient who is in excruciating pain. They didn't even try to give the patient some kind of pain medication. After an hour we reached the right department and they were in horror to see the patient and surprised why the BDU department didn't do anything. Thanks to the urology department, we got the right treatment on time but the negligence of the BDU department and how they shrug their shoulders off is something I had to write here. I hope no one else goes through this..

Thanks a lot to all team of Palliative department for care support and warmth to my father!!!

The worst hospital that anyone can go to. I have no idea why the emergency reception is like this. I went there with a bad situation and I had to wait a couple of hours to be visited by a doctor. It's really funny how the situation is like there. Unfortunately, there are not many options in the city when you get sick during the weekend ie Saturday. At first, I went to the med campus and they said the only option is this hospital. After a couple of hours of waiting my condition got worse and I decided to come back home. Just go there if you are about to die otherwise staying at home is much better.

We went on a saturday morning for an urgency and received medical attention in less than 20 minutes, everyone was very polite and professional

Hospitals should hire more suitable doctors. In my opinion, clinics that deal with sensitive things, where patient has take off their clothes when required, there should be male and female doctors. Because not many people feel comfortable having to undress to be examined by a doctor of the opposite gender. Also there are many cases that the docter is not doing what he should do.

Have the findings checked by a second authority!!!! You can save yourself having to contact the patient service center. After a check-up appointment at the dermatological outpatient clinic at the beginning of July this year. received an incorrect finding. (The doctor was on the phone the whole time during the examination and while typing on the PC; so he didn't listen to me). I disputed the findings through the patient service center and pointed out everything that was demonstrably wrong. I was contacted by phone X times with various questions, but until November 27th. there was no completion.

Many thanks to the great team at B 3. Surgery 1. Here you will receive excellent support during your stay. Even though they all have a lot of work, they still make time for the patients. I would also like to say a big thank you to the surgical team - I was treated very well here. Thanks!

The sisters on the 9th floor made the stay as pleasant as possible. Special thanks to Dr. Eder who carried out the procedure. Her empathy and human nature made me feel safe and in good hands. Many thanks to everyone who looked after me.

Our two children were born in this hospital in 2019 and 2023. We can only report positive things about our time here. You felt very cared for and the entire team is extremely competent, motivated, courteous and friendly. It is important to me to mention this and thank you for all your efforts. Thank you very much for your support. All the very best.

I had the most horrible experience in the gynecology department here, my house doctor told me to go to the emergency room and when I got in for my consultation the doctor told me my problem is not an emergency and that there are people who actually need help. It was my first time seeing a gynecologist and she asked me if I have been before and I said no because I was not financially able to ever before and she almost laughed at me and said „no doctors in your country?“ she was clearly bothered by the fact that I asked her if we can speak in English. After she consulted me she said she can’t give me a diagnostic and than gave me a prescription without a diagnostic. She made me feel very uncomfortable, she made fun of me and where I come from, made me feel like I am not worth helping even tho my house doctor did. That woman should not be a doctor of any kind she was horrible!

We were in the children's hospital last night with our 10-week-old daughter and were really excited. Of course it was to wait but that's the way it is now. The doctors and the nurse were super nice and took really good care of our mouse. Our mouse obviously felt good, despite being in a really bad mood. During the examination she made the whole team and us smile and laugh. We felt very well cared for. Thanks!

There's a good people and there's a very bad people, but the hospital has to make a Training courses for workers to deal with patients and should be attention to patients' complaints. I wonder how a kind docteur like Dr Ilenko Anna has a secretary like that🤷🏻‍♀️ her secretary is a very tough person😬 Violent, aggressive👽 and attacker😡 She does not respect the patients😡 and believes that they are her slaves😈 and that she works for free not for money, and that she works in her own institution or in her home.

Unfortunately, the hospital has become bad. It has become for trainee doctors, not for excellent doctors in the past. I am talking about an experience in 2014 on a treatment trip, and the patient was treated with the best treatment and the best treatment. Now we returned to the same hospital. Unfortunately, it became clear to me that it had become a place for trainee doctors who endangered patients' lives and dealt with worse than bad, and this is a problem Unfortunately, a large international hospital disappointed a lot

Do you think that it’s fair to make a patient wait in the hall from 9am to 4pm to enter his room that was already reserved 21 days before in order to proceed with his chemotherapy!!!!This is not acceptable!! The patient is already ill, plus they are making him wait for more than 6 hours on a chair in the hall!!! So unprofessional and missorganized!!!!!

I recently had a consultation at Dr Rose. I was told several times before going in for the examination that the price is 210 EUR. I even confirmed at the reception again before going in. After the consultation I was told it is now 360 EUR as the doctor did an ultrasound. I did not ask for this extra test nor was I told during the consultation that this test will add an extra cost to the agreed 210 EUR. After querying this I was told that I should’ve asked what my consultation includes as it’s my first time at the hospital!! I find this very bizarre as I book for what I need and confirm the cost before and they just take it upon themselves to add extra tests without asking the patient first and then request payment as the test is done now.

The ENT missed everything possible to miss .. probably bc he barely looked into my nose and mouth due to being scared of covid which is utterly reliable but he accepted patients yet I had my covid test so I refused to pay a penny more than 210€ which I assumed will take longer than what I had... missed my sinusitis in 2022, constantly felt ill and since the ' prestigious dr rose said nothing is wrong with my nose or throat ' I went to everywhere else..ended up having GERD from post nasal drip for months ....literally the ghettoest place for hight price..the view is beautiful but that's it...

I had an eye issue (retina) and Rose was the only place in Bp. willing to give me an eye specialist appointment. Excellent eye exam, assured me that I can safely travel back to the US for further treatment..

Not as professional and friendly as they promote, all about earning money from you or your insurance but with very little care or treatment. All year with appointments and specialist for cancer an tumours ,scan after scan but not any diagnosis or treatment and suffering with swollen eye, colour change, nose and cheek burning pain and insane pressure on head and face but still no help , even though colour change on scan for my rights side of brain , cyst inside my face and gigantic problem at the back of my head and they say no problem and haven’t operated or treated. I hope I’m not dying but still don’t have any diagnosis or confirmation of anything.Now thinking I need to go to another country for help ? Wouldn’t recommend to nobody?? They won’t do anything about these reviews and even give the same answer to each person.

Avoid this hospital! I had to visit the hospital because of a sinus infection, but was rushed into several entirely useless procedures just to hike up the bill. The whole experience was horrible with unfriendly and rude staff. However, the worst part was that a nurse stole 340 euros from my purse in my handbag that I left in the examination room with the nurse when I was pushed into a toilet for another useless test. The hospital operations reeks of scamming people in every possible way. Despicable behaviour preying on people in a vulnerable situation.

Avoid this hospital My husband was admitted to this hospital in 2021, 2022 and 2 days ago. In 2021 I visited him on a Sunday, and he was on the floor (with a broken leg) trying to get onto the sofa, to get out of the window as he was hallucinating. He was on the second floor! The window was then closed and locked but no-one had noticed my husband on the floor, which is a worry. I then had to push for a brain scan, which, according to Xanit showed nothing abnormal. He has now been diagnosed with dementia at Guadalhorce hospital, so I chose to go private again to make things happen faster. We saw a neurologist at Xanit who said he should be hospitalised. When we arrived at the hospital it took over 20 minutes to park as the car park was full, then when we got to reception there were almost 35 people in front of us. We were over an hour late to get to our appointment and then the computers went down!!! We had to go down to Urgencias to be admitted. They told me he had to go to a hospital in Malaga. I then had to go back to the neurologist, as Urgencias refused to call him, and he told them to admit my husband. There was an amazing lack of communication, and the girl who was in triage was basically rude. We were then subjected to a 2/3 hour wait, then taken to a surgical ward where the nurses all moaned about the fact he was being taken into this hospital. I speak and understand Spanish so was very aware of the things being said and I am absolutely horrified at how we were treated. He was hospitalised on Wednesday, and we were told he would get an MRI and CT scan. My husband was aggressive, and I was told I had to stay with him 24/7. This is not why I’m paying private health insurance. I was told there are insufficient nurses to deal with all the patients they have, so I had to stay. The MRI and CT scan didn’t happen as the machine had broken down!!! My husband was very agitated, and the neurologist and I agreed he would be better at home. Therefore, we had to make an appointment for the MRI and CT scan (29th November) I waited over an hour to make this appointment, while my husband was in his hospital room. There were 6 people in front of me, and one person in reception, who decided to deal with people who jumped the queue and one friend (I think Fran was his name). Reception staff are awful and provide terrible customer service. They wander away on their phones when they feel like it and don’t appreciate that people visiting the hospital may be dealing with life and death situations. They are abysmal and need training. I see from these reviews this has been going on for over a year, so I’m not sure if my comments will make any difference at all. Absolutely shocking service. On a brighter note, when you actually get to see a specialist, they are amazing.

I give it 5 because unfortunately I can't give it 10. I went to the emergency room with a referral to a neurologist, the neurologist treated me at the highest level, I wish there were more doctors like her, it would be really great. The lady could have sent me home quickly, but she said she wouldn't let me go home until I had a consultation with the surgeon. What's more, I was also seen by a neurosurgeon, a surgeon and an orthopedist (each of them was also very nice and competent), I also had a CT scan, I was at the doctor's office four times, and her concern and commitment were visible! I could happily wait for my condition with such doctors for a long time and longer!!!!! when it comes to your neurologist, it's only Dr. Marzena Tomaszewska! A doctor by vocation and, above all, a human being! Thank you very much. ❤

Super

Ok

Its been almost 2 years I regularly visit several specialists. Very professional and emphatic doctors! During CT scan procedures after talking to the attentive assistants I feel more secure and less scared. Thanks!

You should dying already before they take care of anything. Not taking anything serious at all

Best Hospital in the Brussels region, friendly staff, great doctors and all multi-lingual

As a foreigner travelling to Prague, this hospital was very helpful. When I got there, the foreign reception was closed and it was hard to communicate with the late at the emergency. Once I was admitted, the doctors and nurses were very competent professionals during my 3 days stay there.

SKIP THIS PLACE! Hospital with old school doctors who see the need to question you inappropriately and then chastise you for coming in after hours with “nothing major.” The attitude in this hospital reflects a pre 1989 mentality when staff were unaware that ever patient is PRIMARILY a client! Go somewhere else; anywhere!!!

Omg! After living in CZ as English speaker for almost 3 years, I finally found the best hospital here. I was here mostly at the cardiology department. Most of the nurses can speak English. Even if they are not, they still try to communicate with you. And ofc, all doctor can speak English. All of them are so patient, nice, and friendly. I was super surprise that I had some chitchat with some nurses during the waiting times. The waiting time is logically make sense. I can simply say, they love their jobs. I can’t recommend anywhere else rather than here :) Best one 😊

Ok

Reception: 1 Emergency care: 2 Telecommunications (phone): 1 Laboratory: 1 Ambulatory care: 1 Accessibility and parking: 1 Hygiene: 3 Medical equipment: 3 Atmosphere and visual decoration: 2 Hospitalization-reception: 2 Hospitalization-rooms: 2 Hospitalization-privacy: 1 Hospitalization-care: 2 Hospitalization-rest and comfort: 2 Hospitalization-amenities: 1 Hospitalization-food: 2 Hospitalization-entertainment: 1 Hospitalization-patient’s rights: 1 Post-hospitalization care: 1 Diagnosis: 1 Doctors’ behavior: 1 Nurses’ behavior: 2 Other staff’s behavior: 3 Doctors’ experience: 2 Nurses’ experience: 2 Outcome: 1 Management and directorate: 1 OVERALL EXPERIENCE: 1

Very bad hospital they cant do any diagnosis for my patient they left her go to home she vomiting and having diarrhea very bad hospital 🤐🤐🤐🤐

I came here at 9 : 15 am . still waiting and now it's 12: 00 pm . I told them that it's urgent I can't wait . i have stomachache. Being a foreigner is not easy in Croatia 🙂 Please don't expect good reviews from foreigners 👎

Banana Republic of Croatia, nonfunctional, corrupt and messy. That is the summary of your wonderful hospitals.

They are the largest hospital center in Croatia and have the best equipment. That's the biggest plus. After that the personal is overworked and somewhat rude; and it gets worse and worse as they climb the hierarchy. Organisation overall is mediocre and dictated directly by politics, failures in organisation are then blamed on the people who work there.

A large hospital dating from the 70s, partly renovated, with many specialties and relatively correct care but very uncertain depending on the services as in many public assistance hospitals in general... We can therefore go there from heaven to hell, often with adorable and caring teams in intensive care or intensive care units and other totally overwhelmed teams with little regard for their patients because they are understaffed in many others services...

On the 3rd floor Orthopedic department: Caregivers, nurse, friendly staff overall 👍 Arthrodesis + laminectomy operation Dr Solène Prost service teacher Tropiano All the pain went well and was well treated. 5 days hospital Return home for 4 weeks to recover peacefully. Then start of physiotherapy rehabilitation.

I was taken to the Urgences here by ambulance and I have never had such an awful experience. The nurse who was looking after me was completely cold and uncaring despite the fact I has a blocked intestine and was not only I’m agony but kept blacking and vomiting. At one point when he saw me vomiting he said “don’t you think you are exaggerating a bit”! It took 6 hours before I had a scan and in that time I was left alone and given no blanket despite being soaked in sweat from the pain. When I finally went upstairs to the operating theatre, the experience was much better. I know this hospital has some great doctors and the surgeon who operated on me did an amazing job. My criticism is uniquely directed at the a&e “urgences” here which is just not good enough. All the staff were uncaring and cold and I felt scared and abandoned which is not what one should feel in hospital. Sorry, but a little more humanity would mean less stress to patients!

They don’t give an estimated waiting time for surgery- they kept pushing my surgery. I had to stay without eating any food or drinking any water for 24+ hours as they kept pushing my surgery. But overall the staff and doctors are very kind. They took care of me really well even though I didn’t speak German!

This place really deserves 0 stars. I’m sure there are hospitals in third world countries that have better service than this place. First of all, the Emergency Room receptionists don’t speak even basic English . Which is unbelievable being in a large international city with a high population of foreigners. They were basically unsympathetic and useless despite me being doubled over in pain. Where do I even begin with what I experienced here? I was admitted at 5am on Monday morning. The place was empty. Despite this, no one ever came to check on me for hours after putting in my IV and I woke up to it sucking my blood out. My toilet didn’t work which was a nightmare with constant vomiting and diarrhea . There was no toilet paper and despite me bringing this up to someone several times throughout the night it was never replaced. Because I had no way to flush the toilet or given any alternatives (even a trash can to vomit in would have been nice) I was forced to just keep stacking all my expulsions into the blocked toilet. For my second IV the nurses put it in wrong, no one noticed until the doctor came in hours later and saw it. I decided to discharge myself and when I left I saw all the nurses and support staff in the hallway chatting about their weekends and playing around on their phones. Absolutely despicable. Since this has been noted by several other reviewers, I believe there needs to be some firing of personnel and change of management. The room itself was also very unhygienic and reeked of urine and homelessness (similar to Hauptbahnhof) which made my already bad nausea even worse 🤮🤮🤢. The negligence at this hospital is out of this world and should be called out.

My sister had a serious operation in this hospital 4 days ago. After the operation, she spent the first night in the intensive care unit. My sister was very satisfied with the treatment in that department and felt calm. After transferring to the public sector, everyone is still very kind and helpful. Very clean hospital, with professional and lovely staff. And also the atmosphere is beautiful.

I had there fundraisers opening my door and when i confronted him, he said oh i thought you wont be able to hear me. Since when did they have the right to open my house door? eastlondon area. Please advise your staff not to open peoples porch doors or any door if they dont answer the door.

Will you please remind your door to door salespeople whom I guess are students operating in Ripley Derbyshire that it is against Charity Commission regulations to pressurise people into signing up to donating. They have been targeting elderly people twice in two days now. By using high pressure tactics like this you are tarnishing the good works this Hospital does.

We’ve been harassed by GOSH representatives on numerous occasions now. They knocked our door THREE times in a single day. Once at midday when no-one was home, the second just 10 minutes after I arrived home from work (obviously stalking me), and the third at 8:30pm!! I’ve previously expressed my disinterest on donating to the charity, yet they continue to return to our property. If a property could be put on a sort of TPS these guys would be in some serious trouble. After speaking to neighbours, they had nothing good to say either (we have a community Facebook Group), some even said that the representatives were extremely rude and overly personal - one lady even had to leave her house because she didn’t feel safe! Times are hard enough and people certainly aren’t going to donate money to a charity that is being represented by such rude individuals. We’ve offered to give them some spare change as a donation but they insist on bank details. You can jog on if you think I’m going to be giving my bank details to some stranger at my doorstep. I’ll happily donate to charity but it will be on my own terms - not with harassment and peer pressure at my door. I wrote this review after GOSH decided to ignore my email of complaint. We’ve now opted to purchase a ‘no cold callers’ plaque to prevent them from visiting in future. If they choose not to comply and continue to harass us, I will be taking this further; perhaps even deciding as a community to set up a ‘no cold calling zone’ with the Local Authority if need be.

No matter why you are there, you cannot go wrong with the professionalism you’ll find. We have experienced the top of the scientific excellence added to the greatest humanity. Thank you for being there to cure the children every day!!

Super fast, got in with my 1y 7mo daughter who swallowed a plant (brome) that got stuck in her tonsil, went to triage who registered her and 5min later got called in. They checked her lungs and ears properly, then her throat, some other doctor colleagues got called in to help hold the baby, they removed it in 2 minutes, they finished writing up her file and we left. Overall it took 20-25min from when we got in to when we got out. Thank you so much!

As a tourist with a sick child, I'm blessed to be directed by the taxi driver to this hospital. We received great care from Dr. Ferro Valencia, and the staff and fellow patients have been super nice too. Some tips for parents like me who don't understand any Italian: 1. Proceed to the emergency department with a red label, there an English speaking staff will be able to direct you to the right department. For us, we were directed to take COVID test first. 2. At the COVID test location, they actually take notes of your symptoms too, and give you a number. Your remaining visits to different departments will all have this number be called upon. 3. The hospital consists of several buildings with different colored labels. Only the emergency department is labeled red, and also functions as triage. When your number is called again, it is usually the case that you will be directed to a numbered room inside the emergency department. From there if you need to go to another building, they'll tell you the color or have a staff guide you. Not many nurses/staff understand English, but they've all been very nice and helpful. Within each department among 5-6 people, usually at least one person speaks good English. It's a really busy hospital, so the staff/doctors might not be so attentive, but if you reach out, they'll be so helpful.

Great people. Great view.

This hospital specifically just for children, 20 different division on large space in front of the best view the sea. helpful doctors and nurses.

Famous hospital for children. Warning: for urgencies, the waiting time can be quite long